Women get together and complain about men. It happens. Yet no other group of women display such visceral antagonism toward men of their own race as Asian women do. We Asian women never say generally “men are horrible.” We say “Asian men are horrible.” We ourselves buy into the rumor that somehow Asian men are more misogynist than other men. The complaints ring universally: Asian men are more abusive; Asian men are more chauvinistic; Asian men are weak; Asian men fail to protect their women. Why?
As Amy Tan and many other Asian female writers have discovered, as every American who has ever watched the glowing screen mesmerized by the gloriously vicious Yakuza gangster strutting through the red-lit parts of Tokyo or the pockmarked Korean actor who is playing a Chinese guy who rapes and beats the white protagonist’s girlfriend know, Asian men are the perfect villains.
Byron Wong (of BigWowo.com and Fighting44s fame) wrote an editorial in the International Examiner, “Heterosexual Asian Men and the Invisibility Problem” (October 19, 2011) that sounded off on the lack of positive representation of straight Asian men. More surprising than the dearth of non-evil straight Asian men in the mainstream media (because really, white people getting it wrong about people of color–when has that been surprising) is the dearth of non-evil straight Asian men as a viable model even within the APA community. As Wong noted, the invisibility of straight Asian men in the APA blogosphere is a “mutually-recognized irony” among straight Asian men.
At APA conferences, non-profit organizations, and even on hit blogs, the voices of APA women and gay men dominate. That’s because APA women and gay men are easy to sympathize with. APA straight men? Not so much. They’re evil, remember?
See, it isn’t just the gloriously vicious Yakuza gangster who makes a perfect villain. Here is where the issues Wong brought up in his editorial weave into feminism. Just as women get defined by the men they’re with, men in turn are also defined by women…the women they protect.
Society defines a positive male role model as someone who can protect women. And if one hurts women, he is without question the purest form of evil, the antithesis of a positive male role model. So the vicious Yakuza gangster is a bad apple for obvious reasons: he hurts women. But the effeminate Asian guy is equally “bad” because he is incapable of protecting women. Sadly, that’s just how society still judges the genders. And Asian men are either the absolute perfect villain in that they hurt women or they are still no hero because they are incapable of protecting women.
In a sense, then, APA women hold APA men in lesser esteem because they’ve bought into the notion of straight Asian men as perfect villains: they’re the worst kind of horrible, the horriblest of the horrible men. Straight Asian men, as portrayed in the Western media and as believed by APAs, will either hurt women or are incapable of protecting and defending women. When I think back on all the anectodal evidence my memory has collected over the years, I can boil down all the Asian women’s complaints of Asian men to one point: straight Asian men don’t protect us and don’t support us.
I’m not saying that’s the reality-reality. I’m saying that’s the reality of the opinion. And it’s that opinion that’s got to change. Because with such strong latent biases against the straight Asian male anchored in us, we have no motivation to be compassionate or promote more positive representations.
In our eyes, the inequities that straight Asian men face weigh less, less than the inequities that Asian women and gay Asian men face. Is this because we are calculating with simple addition? Asian men just got their skin color. Asian women got their skin color plus being woman. Gay Asian men got their skin color plus sexuality. Is that how inequity should be weighted? By simple addition? Or is the mathematics of it more complicated than that?
The Wong editorial says that straight APA men are invisible. I disagree. They are fully visible: as perfect villains.
Are they invisible at APA conferences? No, not really, at least not Minority Militant at the Banana I conference. Him? Invisible? (Although his personal blog is protected now, boo. He was always such a fun read. My kind of guy? Hell no. He disgracefully insulted a friend of mine. But a solid writer and sound activist? I’ll give him that.) Rather, a mockery was made of him and I cannot help but question whether the punishment fit the crime. Now, as I said, his blog is protected and what once was a distinctive voice in the APA community is lost.
Take as another instance any straight APA male blogger who raises the interracial dating issue. He would immediately get dismissed. A guy could make the most profound, valid, irrefutable point, and no one [who should be hearing it] would have heard it because as soon as we see “IR,” we tune out. Yes, “we”– APA females, I’m staring right at you.
And what about Frank Chin? Well okay maybe now he sort of has been MIA and if you were born any year after 1990 apparently he isn’t the only Chin you’ve never heard of. (So sad.) But once upon a time you couldn’t be involved with the Asian American Diaspora, literature, and not know Frank Chin. He was just that un-invisible. Frank Chin’s brilliance and impact on APA literature is incontestable. Yet the APA literati predominantly sided with Maxine Hong Kingston and Kingstonianism in that legendary Chin-Kingston feud. Chin was characterized by many as irrational, belligerent, and hostile, and with that characterization, his activist propositions were dismissed.
The problem isn’t invisibility; it’s being taken seriously. So the Minority Militant guy had a bit too much to drink at the Banana conference. So he isn’t ever going to win a Mr. Congeniality award. But he had real ideas, real opinions, and real ways of expressing those ideas and opinions. We shouldn’t have run him out of town.
As for the IR disparity, yeah, haha, we can laugh about it and say it’s just ‘cuz some of the guys can’t get some. Or we can say people of color don’t score as high on LSATs because they’re not as bright as white people. Or maybe the game is rigged from the get-go so that certain people will always lose. The LSAT racial disparity issue? A big serious deal. The IR disparity issue? Not a big deal. Why not?
Likewise, on the whole, the APA community did not take Frank Chin seriously enough and as a result, his legacy hasn’t gotten passed down to the younger generations of college APA the way Kingston’s works have. Only a few straight APA male activists have written empathetically about Chin, and they, too, weren’t taken seriously.
Why don’t we take straight APA men seriously? Is it a matter of invisibility? No. We see them. The truth is, we don’t really like them. They’re villains. They represent male dominance. Heterosexual dominance. And before anyone can do a doubletake on the logical fallacies there, we got the waves of APA women feminists who reinforce the villain archetype with narrative after narrative of straight APA men who fail to protect women, because whether or not we realize what it is we’re doing (*cough* traditional gender roles *cough*), at the heart of it that’s what women want: men to be protective. So it isn’t that Asian women believe the crazy villain stereotypes of Asian men; it’s that we don’t necessarily see them as protective over us, and so subliminally it’s easier for us to buy into the overt stereotypes, or worse yet, generate them, and then proceed to ignore and dismiss the rational straight Asian men who challenge those stereotypes.
Okay, so here is where I ought to make a confession. I have no idea where I’m going with this. I kinda started without a point, in case that wasn’t flawfully obvious already. So I’ll just end by sputtering the remaining thoughts that come to mind.
(1) While new and independent media have continued to offer more representation of straight APA men these days, they seem only to be fixated on having the Asian guys hook up with women. That isn’t enough to overturn the perfect villain stereotypes, especially if society still defines heroism as protecting women, not banging them. So. There should be more portrayals of straight APA men who protect women. It’s not enough that the Asian guy hooks up with a girl. That’s, dare I say it, such a heterosexual male chauvinist view of what it means to be a positive male role model. No. What’s more important is representing straight APA men in protective roles.
(2) Point number (1) is sexist. But it’ll work, if your goal is to use the media to improve the standing of straight Asian men. At least it’ll get Asian men noticed by women. Like how it works to wear something red and slinky if you’re a woman wanting to get noticed. In fact I think that’s why Asian women got noticed in the first place. “Me love you…”
(3) Earlier in this piece I mentioned the mathematics of weighting marginalization. Here’s the complication: Since anything whites are part of is still considered more important, more worthy of public attention, i.e., the feminist movement and the gay rights movement, APA women and APA gays have that affiliation, and that sympathy. I’m not saying those movements perfectly include the voices of their APAs, but at least with that affiliation and sympathy, there’s mainstream support. Straight APA men are not a part of any white-backed movement and as a result, do not have any affiliations, sympathies, or mainstream support. They are the more marginalized and thus if there is any work left for activists to do, it would be to seek a dynamic equilibrium between the APA sexes. After all, isn’t that what feminism is all about?
@metro And let me add: I’m a big fan of the work of some of these women. But I don’t think that ought to prevent us from pointing out a trend that hits Asian men at all echelons of society.
@bigWOWO @metro Walking Dead currently has an Asian male character. Aside from the main protaganist (Rick), he probably saves the most people. Actually, as of last week he’s probably done the most heroic acts with the least mistakes. He’s also much younger than the main character, his saved his life, and tends to be the most morally centered character on the show. Last episode was a big ep for him in terms of story development (he had a love scene, and risked his life twice).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpNI98nTfzw&feature=youtu.be
@bigWOWO@metro Walking Dead currently has an Asian male character. Aside from the main protaganist (Rick), he probably saves the most people. Actually, as of last week he’s probably done the most heroic acts with the least mistakes. He’s also much younger than the main character, has saved his life, and tends to be the most morally centered character on the show. Last episode was a big ep for him in terms of story development (he had a love scene, and risked his life twice).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpNI98nTfzw&feature=youtu.be
As far as Asian-American female celebs. There are male ones that marry white people too. Just off the top of my head Dat Nguyen and Henry Cho come to mind. Most people in show business/entertainment tend to be non-Asian, so it’s just logical that’s who they see on set, in interviews, and whenever they do what they do. The dating game is a numbers game, so Asian-American celebs (both female and male) will tend to be around a ton of white people. And any celeb of any race can marry whoever they want, because that’s the amount of dating power they have. They basically they don’t count.
@VanCityNights Russell Wong did it better in the 90s. I guess once or twice in 20 years is enough to celebrate the yellow man is finally getting it on and everything is poptarts, rainbows and unicorns!
I got no hope for the mainstream media. the best thing is to generate and support our own that’s not apologist.
with all the youtube celebrities, I’ve yet to see any straight up traditional Asian-American romantic comedies or action hero stuff. FreddieW has a huge following, but his action stuff is based on video-games and not the old fashioned action hero plot.
I’m definitely buying the dvd if this movie ever gets distribution:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1079360/
@mwei No, I don’t think you understood my post. According to my theory, there should be barely any Asian-Americans in attendance at the Oscars, because show business tends to be a majority non-Asian thing.
And no, that’s not completely the media’s fault. Look at your University’s film and drama department, and compare that to it’s Engineering department. Notice how there’s barely any Asians in 1 department, and tons of Asians in the other.
according to your theory about celebrities, we should be seeing about 5% Asian-American attendance at the Oscars next year then?
no, I completely understood your post. I don’t think you understood my passive-aggressive snarky comment.
did you go to CAPE’s event at Union Station last night? I hardly would say there aren’t that many Asians in show business.
There will be very few Asians at attendance at the Oscars because of one thing and one thing only: racism.
so where you’ve gone to school? at USC there are plenty of Asians in the film school, as well as UCLA, and even Chapman.
the problem is the few that get promoted to positions of power will still be catering to a white mainstream if they want to keep their jobs, and we all know Asians are the obedient corporate drones.
@VanCityNights @metro Van, let’s assume that 90% of Asian female celebrities marry White dudes. I think that’s a conservative number; it’s probably closer to 99%–outside of Grace Park, Lisa Ling, and Joan Chen, I’m struggling to come up with anyone who has crossed into minority-territory, even among the indie players.
Are you saying, then, that 90% of the men who your average Asian actress meets are White? They simply don’t bump into any non-White guys? What about actresses like Gong Li and Zhang Ziyi, or Singaporeans like Jamie Yeo?
It just seems to me that that 90% number is somewhat high. I’m in banking, which is a very White industry, in Portland, Oregon, which is a very White city, but even I manage to meet Asian people, both men and women.
I think I heard that Kate Middleton and the other royal twits really boosted hat sales over the summer…
@bigWOWO@metro
Wait, wait, are you talking about Asian-Americans (Lisa Ling), Asian-Canadians (Grace Park), or Asians from Asia (Zhang Ziyi)? Because as we remind white people all the time – they’re not the same thing.
(Not sure, but I recall reading something about Jamie Yeo’s marriage breaking up, and his first husband was Asian. Not going to bother fact checking that, because I’m not even sure Jamie Yeo counts as a celebrity, so if she so chooses to marry a white dude for her 2nd marriage, who really cares?)
Again, how many Asian-American male celebs are married to other Asian-Americans? And does it really matter? I hate to break it to you, but celebrity marriages don’t reflect anything upon your dating life.
John Cho and Kal Penn might marry Asian/Indian chicks some day. That doesn’t mean anything to anyone but them. They can also walk into any nightclub and hook-up with any chick of any race they so choose.
I’m confused, why do you care so much about who celebs marry? Hollywood actors (and when I talk about celebs, I’m referring to Asian-AMERICAN ones, because they are not the same as Asians from Asia – why it’s OK for Asians to forget this but not white people constantly confuses me) constantly hook-up, sleep with, and party like crazy. They can really date whoever they want because they can. I repeat, their relationships have NOTHING to do with yours, or has any effect on your dating life. I hate to break that to you. Whether Grace Park is with an Asian dude or not, she’s still not going to end up with you.
You know what why there’s probably a dating issue for Asian males? Because they sit around thinking dumb shit like this matters. They sit around like some of the other male 8Asians bloggers bitching about an excellent love scene on Walking Dead, or they delusionally believe that who some celeb over in Asia that white chicks don’t even know about somehow effects them.
@bigWOWO@metro
You’d think with so many female bloggers hanging around here, one of them would point out the obvious fact to the males that most of that stuff doesn’t matter. It’s not that hard to hook-up, get a girlfriend and . Messed up people with little social status, drug issues, and who aren’t very good looking that are in relationships. You know what the difference is? They aren’t blogging online about a random actress in another country and who they date, and theorizing about how that’s ruining their lives.
@bigWOWO@metro –“Because just above, you said it was because these female celebrities didn’t meet enough Asian guys. Now you’re saying it doesn’t matter.” —
Yeah, both can easily stand together. It doesn’t have to be one extreme or the other, although it seems some people want to portray it that way (I’m sure for a lot of Asian male bloggers, so they can get reads). Your typical Asian-American female in Hollywood is constantly surrounded by non-Asian men, so by the numbers game they’re much more likely to meet more non-Asian men in Hollywood. A similar scenario would be Dat Nguyen when he played with the Dallas Cowboys: He was probably surrounded by and adored by a lot of Texan chicks that were white since being a high school football star. Are there Asian females at Texas A&M and in Dallas? Yes. Were the large number of eligible bachelorettes he met Asian? Doubt it. So predictably, he ended up marrying a white chick from Texas, as he’s probably surrounded by them playing in Dallas for the Cowboys just as an Asian actress would be surrounded by white people in Hollywood.
And it doesn’t matter specifically when it relates to YOUR specific dating life. Because again, you seem to be missing the point, who some no-name actress in Asia that white chicks don’t even know about here date, has NO effect on your love life. As much as I’d love to blame a random supernatural factor having nothing to do with me when a girl stops hooking up with me, I’m not delusional enough yet to blame it on Jamie Yeo like you are.
There’s a difference between “what the media portrays” and how that effects stereotypes. And “who some actress over in Asia nobody here knows about is dating” and how that effects your love life specifically.
Get it now?
@mwei Mwei, didn’t you just read Van’s post above? Celebrities have NO influence on sales, social trends, or anything else. Chomsky was WRONG when he said that the media manufactures consent. Politicians are STUPID for buying ads because no one watches TV or movies. If hat sales went up when Kate Middleton got married, it’s probably got more to do with the surging economy in Europe this year, not anything that celebrities say or do.
@bigWOWO@mwei You 2 guys are comparing hat sales to your own dating lives?
Wow. Maybe some Asian-American males really do need help. Because socially, you 2 just don’t get it.
@VanCityNights @metro Van, Is the AFCC big because they don’t meet Asian guys, or is it big because it just doesn’t matter? Because just above, you said it was because these female celebrities didn’t meet enough Asian guys. Now you’re saying it doesn’t matter.
“Again, how many Asian-American male celebs are married to other Asian-Americans? And does it really matter? I hate to break it to you, but celebrity marriages don’t reflect anything upon your dating life.”
Well, for me personally, it doesn’t matter. Just like tofurkey, who is 100% gay–it doesn’t matter on a personal level. BUT…for single heterosexual Asian guys who are getting started in life, I just don’t understand how you can say that the media and that the behavior of celebrities has no influence on the public, or whether their personal experiences and how they use their experiences to shape the public dialogue are meaningless. AF/AM marriages are rare at the public level, which supports the villification of Asian men that Akrypti brought up. I’m sorry, but I just don’t see how you can believe that those shaping the media have no influence on public perceptions. We can agree to disagree on this, but I think most people will be agreeing to disagree with you, not me. It just boggles my mind that some Asian dudes will refuse to acknowledge what is clearly obvious–that those in the public eye shape public perception.
@bigWOWO@metro –“Because just above, you said it was because these female celebrities didn’t meet enough Asian guys. Now you’re saying it doesn’t matter.” —
Yeah, both can easily stand together. It doesn’t have to be one extreme or the other, although it seems some people want to portray it that way (I’m sure for a lot of Asian male bloggers, so they can get reads). Your typical Asian-American female in Hollywood is constantly surrounded by non-Asian men, so by the numbers game they’re much more likely to meet more non-Asian men in Hollywood. A similar scenario would be Dat Nguyen when he played with the Dallas Cowboys: He was probably surrounded by and adored by a lot of Texan chicks that were white since being a high school football star. Are there Asian females at Texas A&M and in Dallas? Yes. Were the large number of eligible bachelorettes he met Asian? Doubt it. So predictably, he ended up marrying a white chick from Texas, as he’s probably surrounded by them playing in Dallas for the Cowboys just as an Asian actress would be surrounded by white people in Hollywood.
And it doesn’t matter specifically when it relates to YOUR specific dating life. Because again, you seem to be missing the point, who some no-name actress in Asia that white chicks don’t even know about here date, has NO effect on your love life. As much as I’d love to blame a random supernatural factor having nothing to do with me when a girl stops hooking up with me, I’m not delusional enough yet to blame it on Jamie Yeo like you are.
There’s a difference between “what the media portrays” and how that effects stereotypes. And “who some actress over in Asia nobody here knows about is dating” and how that effects your love life specifically.
Get it now?
@VanCityNights @bigWOWO@metro
Tyra Banks says that 75% of interracial relationships in America are between Asian females and white males; Pew ran this report about Asian females marrying out at higher frequencies than any other race of females (and more so than their male counterparts as well); and if you really want to go digging for it, there’s a plethora of social research and statistics on this and nevermind the anecdotal evidence that sends ripples of nodding through the APA crowds.
(cont’d.)
@VanCityNights @bigWOWO@metro
Van, you’re right. It does come across as whining and complaining and seriously, why don’t these people just get off the blogs and go out there, *talk* to real women, and get a girlfriend? It’s because many of them have done exactly that and found that these girlfriends (now ex-girlfriends) do not give them a fair shake. An Asian guy slips up once and it’s suddenly “you see? All Asian men are horrible.” A white guy slips up once and it’s a cultural difference or it was just this once or hey, it could’ve been worse, he’s really all-around a good fella.
(cont’d.)
@VanCityNights @bigWOWO@metro
I hear you, I do. But I also hear the other side. And in the end, my conclusion is a little more empathy and compassion to the other side would really do us all some good. I’m not sure what your reality is, but my reality is that Asian men must make unusual efforts to succeed, not just in love and relationships, but in their professions as well. And the pressure! When an Asian guy does wrong, it’s not “he did wrong”; it’s “all Asian men do wrong like that.” That, I think, is definitive of marginalization.
(end)
@akrypti@bigWOWO@metro
Our realities might be quite different, I don’t know, maybe – I don’t know your reality. But if you ever hit up a frat party at my college, you’d see the reality, and no shortage of Asian guys hooking up, or with hot girlfriends. I won’t say which school I go to, but if you email me, I will direct you to a party link website at said college, and you can see this reality for yourself.
I’ve heard and understood the arguments from both sides. Just as I’ve heard the arguments on boths sides for the Asian fetish issue. But I just choose to take a more logical look at the issue. I never said that media was fair to Asian males. I said that idiotic arguments such as the belief that who a no-name actress in Asia that nobody knows about here dates a white guy, then that somehow effects how BigWOWO or Metro’s dating life. And in terms of simple things like finding a girlfriend, or hooking up, you’re making a very simple issue more complicated than it needs to be. Honestly, if BigWOWO or Metro went to a busy party, with a bunch of alcohol, and was up to have a ton of fun, I doubt they’d have many issues. But I bet you they haven’t done this.
Also Akrpti, your Asian friends sound super self-loathing and racist. The Asian girls I know are very popular socially, do a lot of volunteering/hold leadership positions on campus, and are super hot. They’ve all dated Asian guys or party/hangout with a lot of Asian guys (as well as guys of other races). The people you hangout with also effect your social view, probably a lot more than the media.
@akrypti@bigWOWO@metro
First, I don’t get my facts from day time talk shows. For a group of people that frequently talk about the distrust of mainstream media – to quote Tyra Banks…media does not ever get more absurd than during the timeslot of daytime talk shows. And I’ve seen that episode, and I’d like to see where she got her stats from. A really important thing to know about stats, especially for things such as daytime talk shows or cable primetime news shows, is to look at the recording method and gathering methods behind the numbers – you’d be very surprised at where people get their numbers from and how they do it to prove some political point that backs them. I won’t waste your time dwelving in detail, but just off the top of my head I already question what they define as “Asian” (if it includes West and South Asians, then you’re including a large number of people from a very conservative religious background), if it was based off US census, and what year that census was. As for the other research on sociological effects of the media and how it effects minority, including dating, I’ve read them too. I’ve also read a bit on evolutionary theory. And those use to effect my views a bit. Then when I started clubbing and going to college parties, I’ve witnessed in person Asian males that I knew hooking up at college parties very easily, with very pretty girls. Including super whitewashed Asian, Caucasian chicks, Indian, and Persian chicks. You know what I gathered from these many, many parties I went to? There’s a small number of guys that just get it, and they dominate the high end of the dating market (the girls every guy wants), the group in between (they’ll have a long-time girlfriend, they might get lucky once in a while at a party), then the group that just doesn’t get anything at all. With Asian guys age 18-35, they seem to be either at the most extremes of these 3 sprectrums. You’d probably guess that the guy whining about interracial dating issues online is likely not one of the Asian guys that gets it.
@akrypti@bigWOWO@metro
Our realities might be quite different, I don’t know, maybe – I don’t know your reality. But if you ever hit up a frat party at my college, you’d see the reality, and no shortage of Asian guys hooking up, or with hot girlfriends. I won’t say which school I go to, but if you email me, I will direct you to a party link website at said college, and you can see this reality for yourself.
I’ve heard and understood the arguments from both sides. Just as I’ve heard the arguments on boths sides for the Asian fetish issue. But I just choose to take a more logical look at the issue. I never said that media was fair to Asian males. I said that idiotic arguments such as the belief that who a no-name actress in Asia that nobody knows about here dates a white guy, then that somehow effects how BigWOWO or Metro’s dating life. And in terms of simple things like finding a girlfriend, or hooking up, you’re making a very simple issue more complicated than it needs to be. Honestly, if BigWOWO or Metro went to a busy party, with a bunch of alcohol, and was up to have a ton of fun, I doubt they’d have many issues. But I bet you they haven’t done this.
Also Akrpti, your Asian friends sound super self-loathing and racist. The Asian girls I know are very popular socially, do a lot of volunteering/hold leadership positions on campus, and are super hot. They’ve all dated Asian guys or party/hangout with a lot of Asian guys (as well as guys of other races). The people you hangout with also effect your social view, probably a lot more than the media.
@mwei “the best thing is to generate and support our own that’s not apologist.”
If I could agree more than 100% …
@bigWOWO@VanCityNights @metro On the celebrity issue I’d like to add that I really agree that celebrity dating issues aren’t representative. They do influence people, and Hollywood sure as hell TRIES to enforce similar IR dating patterns.
The Asian women who date in should be given props for being so resistant to an overtly and proudly racist society that puts pressure at every level and on every field for them to date and marry whites.
But that said Asian men are outnumbered not only by other men but by Asian women in America, to the order of several hundred thousand. Whites use their numerical advantage shamelessly to gain an unfair advantage with more vulnerable and self-loathing women. That’s not to say all Asian women that date white guys are sell-outs or losers, but the sell-outs and losers tend to date white guys.
@mwei “the best thing is to generate and support our own that’s not apologist.”
If I could agree more than 100% …
@bigWOWO@metro
You have to cut out some of the people who ARE powerful because they married rich white guys. Michelle Malkin is also classless no matter how much money she gets thrown at her on her stage. Tan and Hong Kingston would not be famous if they didn’t whine and moan and spend every second of their lives trying to spit on their culture.
Zhang Ziyi dumped Nevo and probably went through entire villages of Communist officials. Gong Li I don’t know about, she is supposedly married and I don’t think the photos mean anything.
@VanCityNights @akrypti@metro
“Honestly, if BigWOWO or Metro went to a busy party, with a bunch of alcohol, and was up to have a ton of fun, I doubt they’d have many issues.”W..w..what??? How does getting drunk solve this social issue? How does getting drunk solve any social issue? Seriously…this could be an answer to ANY social problem, but it’s only temporary. Worried about the economy? Just get drunk and have fun. People dying in Afghanistan? Just get drunk and have fun. Starving children right here in America? At least you got your alcohol and won’t die of thirst! Media representation and the exclusion of Asians in the media? Just get drunk, and you won’t even notice it!
yeah, I was trying to recommend that people who are interested investing in hats should take note of royal weddings.
except of course they’re Asian and don’t wear hats then the media don’t give you any coverage like the Bhutan royals.
@bigWOWO my personal definition of when Asians have made it is when there are AM/AF sex scandals in the tabloids.
until then, others can keep their tokens and chump change.
@VanCityNights @bigWOWO@metro
I previously wrote this about the Banks stat: “There’s this mysterious Tyra Banks statistic, which I cannot find the source of, but if Tyra Banks says it is so, then it must be so…” It should have been clear that I don’t take any of the cited statistics seriously. That said, it’s interesting how they align with certain personal observations, and the testimony of many others.
@Tofurky I’d also say the people behind the scenes have disproportionate influence as well: Mr. Wendi Deng and Mrs. Rupert Deng seems to be calling all the shots these days – despite their phone hacking scandal.
@VanCityNights @bigWOWO@metro
FYI, I’m affiliated with an Asian-interest social sorority, so am all too familiar with the parties you cite.
As for my observations now: you’re right; I can only speak to the women I know, and they may be allegedly “self-loathing and racist,” but they’re also a group of professional women with doctorate degrees who average salaries of 120,000, who are between the ages of 28 and 40, who generally have their pick of the litter. Yeah. You’re right, again. They probably affect my social view.
@VanCityNights @akrypti@metro ” I never said that media was fair to Asian males. I said that idiotic arguments such as the belief that who a no-name actress in Asia that nobody knows about here dates a white guy, then that somehow effects how BigWOWO or Metro’s dating life.”That wasn’t the argument, man; Jamie Yeo was only part of it. We’re talking about a HUGE, overwhelming percentage, not just one person. I would agree with you if we were talking one person, but we’re not. If it were just one person, maybe going to one of your parties and getting drunk WOULD completely solve the problem, but we’re not.
@akrypti@VanCityNights @metro Man, why do I suddenly have a word limit, and why don’t my paragraphs work?
That’s just the thing. When you’ve got rich and powerful people making lots of money and behaving a certain way, those behaviors filter down. I like Van’s suggestion about drinking, but there are some serious issues, just like the one you mentioned above about the villification of heterosexual Asian men, that simply aren’t going to disappear without effort on building the culture.
@VanCityNights for a dude who’s eager to label us as virgin losers and need to go outside, you sure are posting on this thread like “white on rice” dude.
@mwei What also makes me sick is that if any Asian market tries to defend itself from Hollywood invasion, Hollywood throws a fit and every Western “trade organization” lines up to take their side. Meanwhile they’re complete blind and deaf to legitimate complaints by Asian Americans.
They have the gall to whine like children when their pro-white propaganda is blocked out for sound economic reasons but refuse to admit to any wrongs.
Fuck them.
@mwei Wendi Deng has also been shamelessly promoting white interests, she’s the one who introduced ZZY to Vivi Nevo in the first place. Disgusting.
@akrypti –“FYI, I’m affiliated with an Asian-interest social sorority, so am all too familiar with the parties you cite.”–
You are not “too familiar” with the parties I cite. I never mentioned “Asian-interest sororities”, I said frats and sororities. My Asian friends are apart of regular frats and sororities. Why would you assume just because they’re Asian that they’re in “Asian-interest” sororities? Or that because they date Asian guys, and hold leadership positions in sororities that they’re automatically “Asian-interest”? Also, why would your friends friends join Asian-interest sororities if they didn’t like Asian guys (I’m assuming they have socials with Asian frats)? Why wouldn’t they join a regular sorority like the Asian girls I know and take up the leadership positions in those sororities? Can you ask them this for me.
Maybe your friends might have gotten a broader shower view of how dating and diversity worked if they had joined a regular sorority like my friends. And nice with the “my friends make over $120,000”, as if that automatically gives them dating cred, or it makes them more charming. I know when I look for a single Asian girl, the first thing I look for is her paycheck!! Wow.
Also, I hate to say this, but drinking and partying is a huge part of the dating scene, especially for people ages 19-30. Does alcohol solve our problems when it comes to media representation? Nope, never said that. But going to a social event with lots of drinks, and being up to party definitely will help your dating life a lot.
@VanCityNights When you re-read the exchange and consider the context, what I wrote makes sense. You’re the one assuming that I assumed that your buddies are in “Asian-interest” organizations rather than… um… “regular” ones. All I talked about was my own affiliation, which happens to be an Asian Greek, not a “regular” sorority. “Regular,” you call it. Nice, nice.
@akrypti@VanCityNights To add to what Akrytpi said, we’re not talking about my dating life or your dating life or anyone’s individual dating life. We’re talking about disparities. All else being equal, why does the AFCC treat “regular” guys so much better than Asian guys? Why can “regular” guys manage to get seen as individuals separate from their race, while Asian guys who mess up relationships get the ol’ “I’ll never date an Asian guy again!” result. Why is it so rare for Asian female celebrities to prefer “regular” guys over Asian guys even though, as CAPE indicates, there are lots of Asians in that field.
Look, I’m all for the “up by the bootstraps,” whether it includes alcohol or not. I’m just saying that there’s a lot of inequality going on. I hope we can agree on that.
@akrypti@VanCityNights Oops, meant to say “why is it so COMMON for Asian female celebrities…”
@akrypti What context was that Akrypti? I just re-read the exchange, all I said was, ” But if you ever hit up a frat party at my college, you’d see the reality, and no shortage of Asian guys hooking up, or with hot girlfriends.”
So…because there is no shortage of Asian guys hooking up, then it MUST BE an Asian frat right Akrpti? Because no way, in your view, could an Asian guy be an exec in a regular frat, and hook up? So it must be Asian!!
Had I wrote that same paragraph to an Asian chick I knew, or any white chick, they would not assume it was an “Asian sorority.” They’d probably assume it was just a regular sorority. And yes, I use the term “regular”, because that’s what they are, regular, plain frat/sororities. What do you call them?
Also, I’m still curious as to why your buddies with PhDs who make over 120,000 joined an Asian sorority knowing they’d have formals/socials with Asian frats (there are no Asian Greek organizations at my school but I’m going to assume that they have these mandatory events)? Can you ask them for me?
I’m sorry my posts have been so bitter. I’m in a very bad mood. I just got a text from a girl asking me out this weekend to a DJ set. She’s really cute, and has a bangin bod. But she’s only half Asian, and she doesn’t have a PhD. Worse, she doesn’t make $120,000 a year, so she must not have the “the pick of the litter” like your buddies. Now I’m questioning myself, because you know when I look for a girl, the first thing I look for is that PhD.
@akrypti
What context was that Akrypti? I just re-read the exchange, all I said was, ” But if you ever hit up a frat party at my college, you’d see the reality, and no shortage of Asian guys hooking up, or with hot girlfriends.”
So…because there is no shortage of Asian guys hooking up, then it MUST BE an Asian frat right Akrypti? Because no way, in your view, could an Asian guy be an exec in a regular frat, and hook up with sorority chicks, right? Because all the Asian chicks in a sorority must have a “uh derrr i think i’m white and i can’t do my bio 101 homework, help me i need to highlight my hair derrr” persona going, right? (I didn’t even mention that the guys hooked up with Asian girls, you just ASSUMED). There’s no way they could be perfectly reasonable Asian or white girls in a sorority that hook up with other level headed Asian guys in a frat. SO THUS, from “context” you conclude it MUST be Asian-interest greek!!
Had I wrote that same paragraph to a “regular” Asian chick, or any white chick, they would not assume it was an “Asian sorority.” They’d probably assume it was just a regular sorority. Anyways, you’re messing with me. I know it. That’s why I like your posts, they’re sarcastic/end-of-the-world. You’re like a Stephen A. Smith except Asian and female. Why you don’t have a talk show on CW after Tyra’s, I can’t understand.
And yes, I use the term “regular”, because that’s what they are, regular, plain frat/sororities, just as you were in an “Asian-interest” sorority. I didn’t know “regular” and “Asian-interest” had negative/positive connotations to them. What do you call regular Greek organizations, “the enemies”? “The white chicks that keep on stealing our guys”?
But, I’m still curious as to why your buddies with PhDs joined an Asian sorority knowing they’d have formals/socials with Asian frats (there are no Asian Greek organizations at my school but I’m going to assume that they have these mandatory events)? Can you ask them for me?
@akrypti I’m sorry my posts have been so emotional. I’m in a very bad mood. I just got a text from a girl asking me out this weekend to a DJ set. She’s really cute, and has a bangin bod. But she’s only half Asian so she’s not in an Asian-interest sorority, and she doesn’t have a PhD. Worse, she doesn’t make 120,000 a year so she must not have her “pick of the litter” like Akrypti’s buddies. Now I’m questioning myself, blaming Hollywood, and Asian actresses, because why can’t I find a girl that makes 120,000 a year like Akrypti’s!? WHAT’S WRONG WITH ME!?!?
the Kappa Kappa Kappa sorority is recruiting token minorities like Asians for grade inflation now? wow, and here I thought they were just charity and social services based organizations.
@akrypti
What context was that Akrypti? I just re-read the exchange, all I said was, ” But if you ever hit up a frat party at my college, you’d see the reality, and no shortage of Asian guys hooking up, or with hot girlfriends.”
So…because there is no shortage of Asian guys hooking up, then it MUST BE an Asian frat right Akrypti? Because no way, in your view, could an Asian guy be an exec in a regular frat, and hook up with sorority chicks, right? Because all the Asian chicks in a sorority must have a “uuuh deeer i think i’m white and i can’t do my bio homework, help me i need to highlight my hair” attitude, right? (I didn’t even mention that the guys hooked up with Asian girls, you just ASSUMED). There’s no way they could be perfectly reasonable Asian or white girls in a sorority that hook up with other level headed Asian guys in a frat. SO THUS, you conclude it MUST be Asian-interest greek!!
Had I wrote that same paragraph to a “regular” Asian chick, or any white chick, they would not assume it was an “Asian sorority.” They’d probably assume it was just a regular sorority.
And yes, I use the term “regular”, because that’s what they are, regular, plain frat/sororities, just as you were in an “Asian-interest” sorority. I didn’t know “regular” and “Asian-interest” had negative/positive connotations to them. What do you call regular Greek organizations? Anyways, you can’t be serious right now. You’re messing with me. I know it. There’s no way you’re not messing with me. That’s why I like your posts, they’re fantastically extremist. You’re like a Bill O’Reilly except Asian and female.
But, I’m still curious as to why your buddies with PhDs who make over 120,000 joined an Asian sorority knowing they’d have formals/socials with Asian frats (there are no Asian Greek organizations at my school but I’m going to assume that they have these mandatory events)? Can you ask them for me?
I’m sorry my posts have been so emotional. I’m in a very bad mood. I just got a text from a girl asking me out this weekend to a DJ set. She’s really cute, and has a bangin bod. But she’s only half Asian, and she doesn’t have a PhD. Worse, she doesn’t make $120,000 a year, so she must not have the “the pick of the litter” like your buddies. Now I’m questioning myself, because you know when I look for a girl, the first thing I look for is whether she makes 120,000 a year like Akrypti’s circle.
@mwei What people need to see is the movie about Ho Fengshan saving tens of thousands of Jews, but it’s never been made. Hollywood prefers instead to milk a good man’s legacy for profit while simultaneously selling a sanitized Great White Savior propaganda piece.
@VanCityNights
Asian sororities don’t throw mixers with Asian fraternities only. Was that yet another assumption you made?
You’re taking what I said about a woman’s income out of context, but I’d rather not fight over that point with you. I’m not even sure what axe you’re grinding here with everybody.
@Tofurky off topic: you need to see the movie “John Rabe”